This is post #15 on page 1 of a 72 page threadnought, and should have ended the discussion.

Is this the way I play EvE, or the way 99.9% of everyone else plays? No, thankfully. It's pretty despicable. But it's not actionable, or illegal, or the result of anything but the stupidity and greed of the sad sack on the receiving end. Caveat emptor.

*EDIT* Sorry it's now up to 73 pages, and counting.

I expect to at least see new guidelines from CCP about this sort of thing. If that doesn't happen you'll be happy to know I'll be cancelling my 8 existing subs and playing something else.

Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.

None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.

What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game.

There is also a section in the EULA which deals with criminal acts. Recording and publishing information that should be private, as in private conversations is defamation, is a breach of privacy. You cannot record a private conversation and publish that conversation on the EvE forums without breaking the law. The person must be told they are being recorded and the person must give consent to that recording being published.

Indeed. It violates nearly every US wiretap statute.

Consent is only valid if its given freely and without coercion. Since the method is to remove a persons virtual property and using that as a means of obtaining the consent that consent is not given freely and so its voided.

I have no idea about your bitcoins. There are exceptions to consent and coercion. Banks requiring you to sign a contract which gives them right to penalize you with late fee's or otherwise not allowing you to open an account I guess is coercion. Even though you don't agree with the late fee's being unable to open an account, which is a requirement to live coerces you into signing the agreement for example.

But I don't think that applies to the consent to publish embarrassing and humiliating material on a public forum or you lose all your stuff. I think that'd be a hard one to get past a magistrate or judge if you were sued.

What part of the TS happened in game? If you had the guts to listen to that sound cloud part you would think twice about reality and fiction. The bullying was real and so the threads sent back at the sociopaths, but it all happened out of game so it's ok, right?

Frankly I doubt you care.

1.Erotica1 knows that there is high chance that he will get insulted by eveplayer if he does something considered "evil"(link to minerbumping + empyric experiece from various scams).
2. Erotica1 scams person, then puts him into bonus round.
3. Erotica1 puts the player in bonus round in helpless state (takes all assets) and aplies psychical pressure.
4. Erotica1 is surprised when said person breaks and insults him.
Conclusion:
I can't read.

He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?

Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in TS anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.

Relevance?

Also relevant is if it happened again and a more imbalanced person was deliberately targeted and treated the same way causing that person to harm themselves then CCP would likely be liable in part since they are now fully aware of whats occurring and doing nothing would be pretty stupid from a legal point of view.

The US government (and I) would disagree with your nuanced definition. Here's what is posted as a definition on stopbullying.gov (didn't even know that website existed until I googled the definition):

"Cyberbullying is bullying that takes place using electronic technology. Electronic technology includes devices and equipment such as cell phones, computers, and tablets as well as communication tools including social media sites, text messages, chat, and websites.

Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails, rumors sent by email or posted on social networking sites, and embarrassing pictures, videos, websites, or fake profiles."

No mention of "typically carried out by acquaintances" (stated) or "easy to walk away from" (implied).

Bullying Definition:

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance.

The thing is it's not really about pixels.

It's the time, or real money, that people have invested into those pixels that lends them to becoming emotional. And the people who use this to their advantage are very much aware of this fact.

The only person to use threats was Sohkar, I have listened to the sound clip from start to finish. Erotica 1 never raised his voice and never threatened anyone, was not obscene, did not harass, was not abusive or defamatory.

The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.

Being made fun of on the internet is not, in any way shape or form, analogous to real torture.

Ever. I don't care if you lose your space pixels or not.

Of course it can be analogous to real torture. Not the sword in the fire with a back drop of an iron maiden type of torture. We'll leave that for the fantasy film buffs to cream over.

No: It's more analogous to what is now called enhanced interrogation in the halls of polite and fluffy govt ivory towers. And I should mention that the phrase 'being made fun of' belittles what's actually happening. You can drive the right person to slit their wrists with words alone if your grasp of social manipulation is twisted enough. Or you can bring some right up to that point and then back off to do it over and over until they snap.

How many links would you like to tragic ends for people that have been 'made fun of' on the internet. Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? I can link them.

Mr Epeen

getting them to gamble their stuff and then using that EvE virtual property as leverage to coerce them onto a team speak server where they are humiliated and harassed. They then post the recorded conversation on EvE forums to further humiliate that player.

Naive. Sometimes human beeings are turned into puppets. Your seeing things too idealistically.

This is the part of RL that I don't agree with. People are beginning to lose all sense of personal responsibility and demanding that other people take responsibility for their actions. Which is wrong. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and choices. This shirking of responsibility and accountability for one's own action is a plague on this world.

You may not harass other players. You may not cause damage to CCP's reputation.

Already been cited multiple times. You may not harass other players. You may not cause damage to CCP's reputation.

Perhaps not in your fantasy world but in the real world she has. Would you like me to link to the forums of the various games forums which are painting EVE players and CCP's premier game as aweful?

It was outright predatory behavior designed and intended to cause harm to another person.

Yes he was obviously. It comes down to reasonable perceptions. Would you want a loved one to be subjected to similar abuse in a computer game?

A normal person listening to the recording would reasonably be expected to conclude that the intention of the people in the recording was to humiliate, abuse, insult, tease and make fun of this person.

A reasonable person when asked if that would constitute an intention to cause harm to that person would very likely respond in the affirmative.

Stop trying to justify your unjustifiable behavior by calling the victim a 'client', you don't fool me and you likely don't fool even yourself. Your behavior is extremely poor and this is probably a wake up call for you to reassess it.

You should know what you're talking about before you post. Sociopaths usually have very good self esteem. They unfortunately lack the ability to empathize with their victims and lack the ability for self reflection. Empathy is that feeling you get when you're being mean and you suddenly imagine yourself in the persons shoes and feel guilty.

Ok, here's another angle :

Would it be a problem if the act in question was published on the front page of a newspaper? in the sense that there would be a general outcry of the majority of the population, and a strong backlash.
(and this is not just used for emails)

If the answer is yes, then CCP must address it, because without a response there *will* be more widespread publicity over this incident, just as B-R got widespread publicity.

Also, coming from the finance industry I'm very tempted to go fish for the contact information of CCP's investors and see how THEY would react if CCP did nothing...

:)

I was unaware they had cured people with sociopathic tendencies. Care to post a link?

That's not *entirely* accurate.
I'm not at liberty to say what constitutes a winner, and what, precisely, they recieve.... but there HAVE been winners, and they DO end up quite spacerich.

We have (allegedly) had an agent get in touch with him and Sohkar said that it was all behind him until Ripard posted the blog post.

He said (allegedly) that he wished Ripard had asked his permission, and that he was kicked from his highsec corp because they didn't like the attention.


But we ARE trying to get him on teamspeak RIGHT NOW to talk with Erotica 1 about this whole thing: http://www.twitch.tv/kristallnachte/

This could be VERY enlightening!

-beating a dead horse-

They're facts.

Sorry but the issue is not done and dusted.

What was done was against the rules (harassment), damaged CCP's reputation (only have to check the MMO boards to see the response), and if nothing is done to prevent this sort of thing occurring then it will happen again and potentially someone could be harmed, either one of the perpetrators in RL or the victim through self harm.

More disturbingly one of the perpetrators stated in this thread that they're actively competing against other people also doing the same thing and so they're being forced to 'outdo' each other which means the abuse will take the slippery slope of stupidity and potentially become much more serious with more serious consequences.

If CCP does not act on their duty of care towards their playerbase now they are aware of the problem then they could be liable for a portion of any damages if someone did sue. CCP gains nothing but negative publicity and the potential to be sued if they don't act.

They cannot now claim they were not knowledgeable about the activity as a defense.

They're facts.

Sorry but the issue is not done and dusted.

What was done was against the rules (harassment), damaged CCP's reputation (only have to check the MMO boards to see the response), and if nothing is done to prevent this sort of thing occurring then it will happen again and potentially someone could be harmed, either one of the perpetrators in RL or the victim through self harm.

More disturbingly one of the perpetrators stated in this thread that they're actively competing against other people also doing the same thing and so they're being forced to 'outdo' each other which means the abuse will take the slippery slope of stupidity and potentially become much more serious with more serious consequences.

If CCP does not act on their duty of care towards their playerbase now they are aware of the problem then they could be liable for a portion of any damages if someone did sue. CCP gains nothing but negative publicity and the potential to be sued if they don't act.

They cannot now claim they were not knowledgeable about the activity as a defense.

Then you have problems with your comprehension skills. Nothing much that can be done for that here on the board.

Yeah I'm driven by pure hate. That's why I said I don't believe anyone should be banned, only safeguards put in place. That's pure hate :)

IMO you're driven by a desire to defend your methods of RL harming people for your own sick self gratification and I think that part of you is rather despicable.

I disagree. Harm is not purely physical. Harm can be also pyschological. Harm doesn't have to be permanent, it can be temporary. If someone spits on you in the street and you go home and shower was no harm done? If someone deliberately makes your day miserable at work and you go home and later feel better was no harm done? In both cases harm was done, it was just not permanent and so you couldn't find a remedy in a court for that but its still harm.

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.1ST OFFENCE GÇô WARNING
2ND OFFENCE GÇô 14 DAY SUSPENSION
3RD OFFENCE GÇô 30 DAY SUSPENSION
4TH OFFENCE GÇô 90 DAY SUSPENSION
5TH OFFENCE GÇô 180 DAY SUSPENSION
6+ OFFENCES GÇô 180 DAY SUSPENSION (OR PERMANENT BAN IF TRANSGRESSION IS SEVERE ENOUGH)

When I first started EVE I let people get to me on the forums but then I grew up, got a job, got married, had kids.

I realised that the government expected me to give them 45% of my earnings + 10% GST on top + registration + tax my petrol 45% + tax my cigarettes around 300% + tax my alcohol 60%.

I realised that girlfriends who turn into wives are massively annoying and troll me much more than any forum user ever could.

At that point I ceased to able to be annoyed by the EVE online forums and started using it as a way to relax. Relaxing in a nice troll thread helps me survive life. Why would I need to be offensive or abusive to you wonderful people. I feel like buying you all beer.

nope. that is an often repeated lie to make gullible people believe it. I have addressed this at length.

Once again, whether its now okay or not with the victim the line was crossed and cannot be uncrossed. If you're drink driving and don't kill anyone does that make it okay? No.

How much they paid him to be "okay with it" if they did, which is very highly likely given their questionable eithics is irrelevant.

This thread-naught, the multiple blogs, the posts on MMORPG, Massively and the rest slamming EVE, CCP, the player base is damage and the potential harm that it COULD HAVE CAUSED is the main issue.

As an aside I found it pretty amusing that someone... can't say who seems to have gone around and posted on sites that its suddenly okay, the victim is not upset, that the person who reported it is the evil one and oh yeah, could you please lock and delete these now... lol

Golf Claps... You wouldn't happen to be a former Iraqi Information Minister would you :)